Q: You’ve preached on many life-changing topics over the years. What made you realize this book on grace had to be written?
A: What made me realize this book on grace, The Transformative Power of Grace, had to be written is because a lot of times you can preach and say things, and it takes a little bit more meditation to really “get it.” To capture what it means. So, I must have felt like the apostle Paul at one time, thinking I just have to write this down so people can read it slowly, so they can meditate on it, so they can turn to the Scriptures. I’m not trying to preach just a bunch of cliches, I want to set up a system of learning where you can really “get it,” and digest it, and then live it.
Q: You write that many believers are unknowingly trapped in a performance-based gospel. What are some signs someone might be living under legalism instead of grace?
A: If you feel like you have to strive in order to get what God has already made available to you, that is a tell-tale sign that you are still operating under the law of Moses. If you find yourself depending more on your self-effort than you depend on the fact that you can participate in what Jesus has already done, that’s a sign that you are probably still under the law. If you’re still living your life feeling like, “I have to do this for God to do that.” For example, “I’ve got to be good in order for God to be good to me.” We know that God’s not good to you because you are good – God is good because God is good! And your union with Christ allows you to participate in His goodness. So, if you’re always trying to qualify or earn what God has already given you as a gift, you’re still operating under the law of Moses.
Q: What do you say to the person who believes God’s grace doesn’t apply to them because of their past mistakes or failures?
A: There’s not much you can say because it’s a lack of understanding, a lack of clarity concerning how to rightly divide the Word of truth. Unless a person is really hungry to know the difference, what I would say to them is that there is a truth under the law of Moses and there is a truth under the grace of Jesus Christ. Rightly dividing the Word so you can see that what was true under the Old Covenant may not be true under the New Covenant will at least get you to the point where you can determine between the two. If something was true under the old, performance-based covenant that means you have to strive to try to get it, versus the new covenant, which is something that’s been gifted to me, something that I receive and that I embrace. It’s something that’s already finished; it’s already done. If you really want to know the truth, when people defend their life under the law, I have one question I ask them: “How’s it working for you?”
Q: Grace often gets misunderstood as a passive doctrine. You talk about it being a transformative power. How does grace actively change someone from the inside out?
A: When you talk about grace, you’re not talking about a subject, you’re not talking about a curriculum, you’re talking about a person: Jesus, full of grace and truth. When you encounter Jesus and embrace Him, He will change your life. The Bible says, “He will give you the desire to do what pleases Him.” Think about that. The more you see Jesus, the Bible says you’re going to be changed into that very image. So remember, it’s not doctrine or curriculum. Grace is a person: Jesus, full of grace and truth. And that makes all the difference in the world.
Q: Some people feel that too much teaching on grace will lead to compromise. Why do you believe grace actually leads to greater holiness and obedience?
A: First of all, understand that when we talk about grace, we are talking about Jesus. We’re not talking about compromise; what we’re talking about is the fact that the grace of God sets you free in your soul. You begin to recognize that He’s not condemning you or shaming you; it’s not over when you mess up. This is a journey, and on this journey, God is developing you. God is maturing you. It’s such freedom to realize there’s no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. It’s freedom to realize that God loves you, forgives you, will help and develop you, will keep you from falling, and all of these things that you didn’t know God would do because you were so busy trying to do it on your own through self-effort. It’s important to recognize that the grace of God is not going to lead you into loose living. The Bible says that we’re no longer under the law, but we are under grace. Sin won’t have dominion over you under grace, sin does have dominion over you under the law. Grace doesn’t produce loose living; grace is not a license to sin. You don’t need a license to sin; you’ve been sinning lifelong. Grace is not the path into sin; it’s a way out of sin.
Q: How did embracing the message of grace change your approach to ministry and help you lead your church today?
A: My approach to ministry was under the law that said you have to do this in order to get that. You have to strive and sweat and deserve in order to ever see it. People were just not getting that. I saw people would rather just quit altogether than to rejoice over what Jesus really did. I asked myself a question, “Why are we celebrating Jesus on Easter?” If He set us free from our sins, and then I go back and preach that you have to work hard to get freedom, you’re going to have to sweat to get every gift that God left for you. And a gift is supposed to be something that is free.
If I have to do in order to be saved, then salvation is not a gift. I just got so tired of passing by the contradictions and not dealing with them when I saw people sweating, suffering, and walking in shame and condemnation. The grace of God is the only thing that can set you free. It set me free. It set people I know free—my staff, my church—once we began to learn about the liberty and gifts that came by the blood of Jesus and how the Holy Spirit helps you to do things you can’t do on your own. We forget to factor in the Holy Spirit. He makes the difference. You can get out of the way and let the Holy Spirit get in the way. Once you learn how to yield, you see the difference in the life of the church, in your family’s life, and even in your own individual life. I am a witness.
Q: What surprised you the most as God began to reveal the true depth of His grace to you?
A: What surprised me the most is the fact that He had already finished everything that I was trying to finish. I was shocked to know that what He was asking from me was to believe, embrace, and align myself with the finished works. In John 19:30, Jesus said, “It is finished.” So, I have learned how to live in the land of the finished instead of the land of trying to work to get it finished. The shocker was that Jesus did it all, and because of that, my starting line is now the finish line.
I’m not going from misery to victory. I’m going from victory to victory. I’m not going from sickness to healing. The starting line for me is healing. I believe I am already healed, so I’m making confessions, not to make what Jesus has already done “true,” but in order to agree and line myself up with the finished works of Jesus Christ. The fact that it’s all a gift—salvation is a gift, faith is a gift, grace is a gift, righteousness is a gift—and He’s just asking me to receive it, embrace it, and align myself with it—wow. He really, really loves mankind.
Q: What are some common lies the enemy uses to keep believers from fully receiving God’s grace, and how can we fight back with truth?
A: There are just lots of lies—lies like, “Jesus is not enough; you’ve got to always add to Him.” “The blood is not enough; you’ve got to add to Him.” “If you take one step, He’ll take two.” All of that leads people into doing things out of obligation and duty instead of out of love and devotion.
The way you begin to combat those lies is by getting into the presence of Jesus. I’ve learned that the presence of God is my prosperity. People have misunderstood what it means to prosper. I’m not in this for what I can get out of it; I’m in it for Jesus. I want Him. As we spend time looking at things that were true under the Old Covenant, we must also recognize that since Jesus has come, died, and shed His blood, we now live in the truth of the New Covenant.
We’ve got to recognize the deception part, the law-based religion part. We need to recognize that we didn’t have a revelation of Jesus or a revelation of grace. Now, the first thing we do is teach it so people can hear it. We show the Scriptures, and most importantly, we become a living epistle of the grace of God. People can see grace in action, and they begin to understand that if we can love God and love one another, there’s something really different from the lies we had lined ourselves up with.
Q: Many people feel stuck in shame, striving, or spiritual burnout. What’s one practical step they can take today to step into grace-filled living?
A: I’ll tell you one practical thing you can do to step out of shame. The Bible says, “He that believeth in me, ought not to be put in shame.” Anything you got yourself into and you want to get out, the way out is your belief and trust in Jesus. We have to learn how to rest in what Jesus has accomplished. Which simply means we have to line up our lives and our thinking with what Jesus has done. Know that Satan is trying to knock you out of alignment so that you won’t take advantage of the amazing union that you have with the Father. We are branches, He is the vine. The key to success is to stay connected to the vine, because without Him, we can do nothing.
Q: If there’s one truth about grace that you wish every believer could fully grasp and never forget, what would it be?
A: The truth that grace is a person. The truth that we’re not just dealing with some principle. We are dealing with Jesus. And when people say to me, “I have a problem with grace,” I just think you have a problem with Jesus. Because He is so deep, so wide, so high, that it’s just amazing to develop a relationship with Him and to behold Him. You’re going to be changed in a moment. You’re going to be changed. To me, that’s what grace is.
